Curse

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 19, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Well i agree that the drops are a little lacking these days, but i wouldnt blame Anet or yell at them for it they are just doing what they can right now...

i dont mean to insult everyone who agrees with this "Petition" but it just sounds like a bunch of farmers who are angry they cant make quick cash anymore.. to me farmers are just as bad as botters, all they want is quick fast cash with out really having to work for it

Do i notice that drops are down.. well ya when you go from finding 3 runes a day (non farming) to 1 every week and a half (non farming) its kinda hard not to notice, am i mad at Anet for it, no they run the show around here not me what they say goes and i respect that *butt kiss sounds here*

as for if im going to sign this "Petition" i guess ill half sign it, i want a little bit of the drops back, but not like a waterfall of them

/Si (half of sign)

Zerox · Jul 19, 2005, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

Well i agree that the drops are a little lacking these days, but i wouldnt blame Anet or yell at them for it they are just doing what they can right now...

i dont mean to insult everyone who agrees with this "Petition" but it just sounds like a bunch of farmers who are angry they cant make quick cash anymore.. to me farmers are just as bad as botters, all they want is quick fast cash with out really having to work for it

I'm sorry, what?

You say farmers are just as bad as botters, and want fast cash without working for it?

Little do you know. This post is just to warn you about the flaming that is about to commence, heading your way, if anyone even bothers correcting you.

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

Okay, I had my posts before and I wasn't gonna say anything more until the above....

What do you mean "'claim' skills are boring"? And what do you mean "these people seem very confused"? Everyone is entitled to his/her perspective. To you -- you like skills, that is fine. I have no problem with that. I won't call you confused. But clearly that courtesy is NOT being returned.

You claimed skills were boring and others agreed with your post. The way I see it the game has a particular focus and quite a lot of people are trying to play the game in a different way to how it should be played i.e. they are not exploring the full depth of the game. Instead they are replaying several parts of the game repeatedly with the same skill sets by themselves. I mean why did Anet bother including huge numbers of skills, the ability to play multiplayer and many varied areas.They should created several samey farmable areas, where you were forced to play single player and given you the optimum skill set. Yes granted everyone is entitled to their perspective. I never dissallowed you yours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

I can argue just as well that the nature of the game is: "An online fantasy world with great graphics to immerse you in it so you are entertained." That the nature of the game is not "try out the maximum number of combination of skills that you possibly could."

I can also argue that if you disagree with the above, then you must be confused. But I won't say that -- as I believe you aren't confused, you simply are interested in diff things. And that is kewl -- I am down with that...

I am glad we enjoy different things. However I believe that if this is the case you are playing the wrong game, since I believe Anet will continue to NERF these areas, since they are in effect bugged. Farming to the n'th degree is an exploit!

"An online fantasy world with great graphics to immerse you in it so you are entertained." is a very vague description of the game and incredibly lose. That pretty much describes all MMPORGs. In order to differentiate this game you would have to include information of its key features. These key features would definitely include the skill system. However I feel the farming side of the game would not be mentioned since this isn't an intentional feature. Also I do not believe it is possible to test out every skill combination. What I do feel is that those who farm ignore this part of the game and reside themselves to using one skill set only. I mean why would Anet herf these area if thought they represented an important part of the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

Now you can say you don't like farming -- you are entitled to your opinion. However, for many others, they DO. They are as entitled to their opinion as you are. They also paid as much money as you -- if Anet wants to continue as a business, they'd do well to pay attention to every major group.

But not when it infringes upon other peoples fun and when its taking the game in a direction it shouldn't be going. The game has to maintain some sort of coherence. You can't please every group otherwise it will be a bodge of a game. You have to stick to some core ideas. And I feel that those ideas do not involve farming.

As I have stated before it is up to the customer when they buy a product to understand what that product is. If they fail to understand this is not the designers fault. It is theirs!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

Whether you like it or not, people who do a bit of farming is a big part of the game -- just look at the number of people who have loads of stuff to sell. So they should have a voice and a thread to petition for what they want.

Now, this is a petition thread to undo some of the nerf'ing done to farming. You have voiced your opinion already. I would say, if you really are against this, go start a petition to continue to do more nerf'ing of farming. If you gather more signatures than this thread, A.net is likely to lean toward listening to you anyways.

Otherwise, you are basically just here trying to suppress the opinion of those that disagree with you.

Those that sell items do not necessarily farm. I've traded many times with items I found whilst playing. I didn't go out to find them intentionally. Also if you say people do this it just goes to prove that farmers do it for the money and this ultimately screws up the economy.

I have considered making a post on this issue. Thanks for reading.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 19, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

We're going around in circles again with this disccusion. The farmers are still refusing to make any sort of comprimise to their farming, even though if they are left to their own devices they will just make things worse for themselves. It's a good thing that Anet know what they are doing and actually learn from the mistakes that MMORPG's have made in the past with their economies. People are complaining that it' taking them an hour to get 5k. So what? In 3 and a half hours you will have the money you need to buy the best (Statisticle wise) armour in the game which you should only need to buy once.
Personaly I've never had more then 12k in my total shared vault since I started playing (Not including the two sigils I have earned from the HoH.)
I've got 3 characters decked out in Droknars Armour and one with 2 sets (For PvP versatility.)
I've never felt the need to go farm monsters nor have I. Maybe I've just been uber lucky with the loot or maybe it's because I don't farm and I'm not hit but this Anti-loot code i hear so much about.
Either way I'm glad Anet have ade farming difficult. The econmy will soon settle and prices will reach an affordable level again. Seeing people selling a "clean" fiery dragon sword for 10k makes me wonder where the econmy would have gone without these nerfs.

Jigs · Jul 19, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

This game is not about how many hours you play but how skilled you are. Not many of us have the leisure time to play for several hours in a day. Now with the nerfing, it would take longer time to upgrade armors and weapons. Players are not only after gold in farming, they are after crafting items too. with the lesser drops, newbies are now even begging for materials and gold for their armor and weapons. yesterday, I flamed at one guy about begging for materials and gold (it was so pathetic to see), then he told me that he had been playing for hours and still he doesn't have enough iron ingots and gold to craft a new armor (whether he is lying or not, it sounds convincing and very possible), so i gave him the materials he needed.

with this problem now, the game is now more like a time based play. the more hours you play the better your character will be.

some of the peole here said that they make a quite large amount of gold in short play time. Maybe u guys are lucky, but most who commented about the nerfing are the one's who didn't make as much as u. they complained bcoz they want something and to get that something they have to burn a lot of time to get it. Like I said earlier, most of us dont have time to burn to play the game, we have lives to to tend to.

I think i am confusing u ppl right now , maybe it's because it 2:51am ( just got home from the hospital) here already and i am quite sleepy now... whatever, i think i have posted some good stand against nerfing. good morning everybody

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 19, 2005, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerox

I'm sorry, what?

You say farmers are just as bad as botters, and want fast cash without working for it?

Little do you know. This post is just to warn you about the flaming that is about to commence, heading your way, if anyone even bothers correcting you.

well im ready for it, after all it use to my job to take care of people like that on other forums.. *sniff* i miss the forum police

All im saying is people need to stop focusing on drops and pay more attention to the actual game

Calimar · Jul 19, 2005, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Jigs,

the guy might have sounded convincing... but I'm ready to bet all the money in my xunlay chest (about 7k now) that he was lying.
I never farm. Never. I find it extremely boring. If I go out of town, I do to complete a quest, find a location, learn a skill, or help a friend. I play one hour or two a day, so I don't have time to spend in useless monster killing.

I went to 13k, then bought aeromancer armor which costed me about 7k (not even droknar, I hate linen), then bought pyromancer at droknar, formed a guild and bought the mantle. That left me at 1.5k, a week ago. I'm now over 7k. A bit low on iron, but who cares? While running towards copperhammer mines I'll just pick up some giant armor and recicle it for iron.

This game plays itself: if you follow it, you'll end up strong enough and with enough gold. Easy. People complain because they are cheap, and because there are kind people like you jigs, that will spare them the effort. When I see beggars, I just go away - it's disgusting to see big warriors spending half an hour in town begging for 5 iron ingots when they could be adventuring in the same time, and ind 10 or more.

I will not support this kind of crew - you may want to play the game, or stay in town complaining you don't have the money to buy stuff. Either way, it's not my concern. *I* choose to play the game 1 hour a day - as much as family and work allow me to - and made it to moladune without begging or being given stuff. Each step was MINE.

I don't judge: everyone plays the game as they want - but I don't give away stuff just because some 13years old is lazy. Or do you picture mature people begging in town? I, for some reason, can't.

Kabale · Jul 19, 2005, 11:13 AM // 11:13

I am a 'new' player (ie. i wasn't around to see the uber drops) and have no problem with the way the economy works. Sure, the amount of cash I have is nothing compared to what the people who bought the game in its early days have, but it doesn't bother me because these players are becoming more and more a minority as new players buy the game (which I can assure you is still happening).

---> It is just unfortunate that A.net had these huge drops to begin with. <---

This is the only problem I see.
This gap is there, undeniably, but I think increasing the drops would only result in too many people having the same armors, weapons, etc. and everyone will just be more 'balanced' (and look the same). Where's the fun in that? I like being against a team in PvP that has the uber items and everything and still beating them as a minority just because we made better use of our skills or whatever...
As for PvE, well I dunno. I've never had the best items in any game, and I kind of like that, because it'll always give you an overall goal while you are doing other things and you will be constantly working towards it. The wrong thing to do is make it your 'primary' goal... Just play the game, make a new char, eventually you will have enough money. If you can't be bothered doing that and you've gotten bored of the game, well maybe you should play something else.
As for the gap, it does have its uses. You will eventually find an 'uber item' because they're not completely gone from the game... And when you do find it you can sell it for a huge price compared to the amounts you're used to, and then you'll be able to afford more of the better armors and such.

/against

I am happy with the way the game is now.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 19, 2005, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Jigs: that guy was definitely lying. Iron and gold are two things it is NOT hard to find. Really nice objects, on the other hand, are quite sparse (except in some areas).

raven214 · Jul 19, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

We're going around in circles again with this disccusion. The farmers are still refusing to make any sort of comprimise to their farming, even though if they are left to their own devices they will just make things worse for themselves. It's a good thing that Anet know what they are doing and actually learn from the mistakes that MMORPG's have made in the past with their economies. People are complaining that it' taking them an hour to get 5k. So what? In 3 and a half hours you will have the money you need to buy the best (Statisticle wise) armour in the game which you should only need to buy once.
Personaly I've never had more then 12k in my total shared vault since I started playing (Not including the two sigils I have earned from the HoH.)
I've got 3 characters decked out in Droknars Armour and one with 2 sets (For PvP versatility.)
I've never felt the need to go farm monsters nor have I. Maybe I've just been uber lucky with the loot or maybe it's because I don't farm and I'm not hit but this Anti-loot code i hear so much about.
Either way I'm glad Anet have ade farming difficult. The econmy will soon settle and prices will reach an affordable level again. Seeing people selling a "clean" fiery dragon sword for 10k makes me wonder where the econmy would have gone without these nerfs.

An hour to get 5k? How do you do that!? I wish I could get that. Maybe it's because I'm not a farmer. I think the best I've been able to get is 2.5k in an hour, and even that was pushing it.

And when will the economy settle again? I realize things don't necessarily happen over night, but black dye is still hovering around 9k, and even silver was up to 2k this morning.

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

I am a 'new' player (ie. i wasn't around to see the uber drops) and have no problem with the way the economy works. Sure, the amount of cash I have is nothing compared to what the people who bought the game in its early days have, but it doesn't bother me because these players are becoming more and more a minority as new players buy the game (which I can assure you is still happening).

---> It is just unfortunate that A.net had these huge drops to begin with. <---

This is the only problem I see.
This gap is there, undeniably, but I think increasing the drops would only result in too many people having the same armors, weapons, etc. and everyone will just be more 'balanced' (and look the same). Where's the fun in that? I like being against a team in PvP that has the uber items and everything and still beating them as a minority just because we made better use of our skills or whatever...
As for PvE, well I dunno. I've never had the best items in any game, and I kind of like that, because it'll always give you an overall goal while you are doing other things and you will be constantly working towards it. The wrong thing to do is make it your 'primary' goal... Just play the game, make a new char, eventually you will have enough money. If you can't be bothered doing that and you've gotten bored of the game, well maybe you should play something else.
As for the gap, it does have its uses. You will eventually find an 'uber item' because they're not completely gone from the game... And when you do find it you can sell it for a huge price compared to the amounts you're used to, and then you'll be able to afford more of the better armors and such.

/against

I am happy with the way the game is now.

This is one of the most sensible post I've seen to date.

I've never had huge amounts of gold. But I've never struggled to buy armour etc. I've never made hording items a priority. With regards to materials I salvage nearly everything I get with a expert salvage kit. I regulary get steel and iron ingots. As a result I always have plenty of materials and never have to buy them anymore. I think your right in saying people have lost the plot of the game when they send all their time farming and consider it their primary goal.

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

well im ready for it, after all it use to my job to take care of people like that on other forums.. *sniff* i miss the forum police

All im saying is people need to stop focusing on drops and pay more attention to the actual game

So very true! I've written loads of post here trying to explain this to people. But nobody listens.

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

We're going around in circles again with this disccusion. The farmers are still refusing to make any sort of comprimise to their farming, even though if they are left to their own devices they will just make things worse for themselves. It's a good thing that Anet know what they are doing and actually learn from the mistakes that MMORPG's have made in the past with their economies. People are complaining that it' taking them an hour to get 5k. So what? In 3 and a half hours you will have the money you need to buy the best (Statisticle wise) armour in the game which you should only need to buy once.
Personaly I've never had more then 12k in my total shared vault since I started playing (Not including the two sigils I have earned from the HoH.)
I've got 3 characters decked out in Droknars Armour and one with 2 sets (For PvP versatility.)
I've never felt the need to go farm monsters nor have I. Maybe I've just been uber lucky with the loot or maybe it's because I don't farm and I'm not hit but this Anti-loot code i hear so much about.
Either way I'm glad Anet have ade farming difficult. The econmy will soon settle and prices will reach an affordable level again. Seeing people selling a "clean" fiery dragon sword for 10k makes me wonder where the econmy would have gone without these nerfs.

Farmers do not seem to care where the game goes as long as they can spend hours collecting gold and items to sell as gold. Hopefully the economy will rectify itself soon and people will start taking more note of the skill system and the many tactics that can be employed through proper utilisation of it.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 19, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven214

An hour to get 5k? How do you do that!? I wish I could get that. Maybe it's because I'm not a farmer. I think the best I've been able to get is 2.5k in an hour, and even that was pushing it.

And when will the economy settle again? I realize things don't necessarily happen over night, but black dye is still hovering around 9k, and even silver was up to 2k this morning.

I was skill capping with a bunch of random peeps in perdition rock. After a few runs in an hour just selling crap i didn't want to merchants and the gold drop I had 2k. The 5k comment was to an earlier post by velvet bunny. He claimed to still be able to do this.

What's wrong with 2k an hour? It's not like I was adventuring for the sole sake of gold. I was in it for the skills. The 2k was just a bonus. It's nice to go out with a goal and come back with a nice bit of gold. Even better to know that it's not that much less then the farmers out there are getting. Means I get to adventure and stay close to the wealth line of the farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigs

Farmers helps other players in a big way. Prices of items sold by merchants are sometimes way high. you can get a better deal from other players who trades their stuff from farming. Ex: glob of ectoplasm could cost 9.5k in the market, you could get it at 7-8k from player traders. and where does the money go, mostlikely back to the economy again. traders will mostlikely buy much better armors and weapons w/c cost a lot. This already sounds like capitalism (or it is already capitalism) but mostly everyone will benefit on it.
trading is so big now, it's even hard to choose to w/c player to buy. the chat area is flooded by trading players, competing for lower prices of wanted items. It's even a great help on noobs, they have access to better weapons and items they need to upgrade armors and weapons.

Do you know the reason thoese globs are so expensive in the first place? Becasue everybody has/had huge amounts of gold and kept buying them. The price rose. No since they sell for so much and people don't have the money to buy them it will eventually be more profitable to sell to the merchant. The price will start to fall once again. If the uber drops come back the price will just keep rising!

It will take a while but the prices will drop. Anet knows what they're doing. If they hadn't nerfed the drops imagine what the prices of the globs would be now? I don't think it matters how many people sign this, anet won't give in to something that will lead to Guild wars being just another farming sim. It's there on the box. Skill not Hours played. Rising prices will force people to farm to be competative and that is the last thing Anet wants.

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

I don't think it matters how many people sign this, anet won't give in to something that will lead to Guild wars being just another farming sim. It's there on the box. Skill not Hours played. Rising prices will force people to farm to be competative and that is the last thing Anet wants.

Well said! Thats the message I've been trying to get across to people for the last week.

SKILLS!

Calimar · Jul 19, 2005, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Agreed Thomasuwoo - good analysis.

Btw ppl... a guildmate told me he's got 10k in an hour and said with an ele you could make it 20k. Said if you're fast you can do 30k - in a certain spot. I haven't tried: as mentioned, I never farm. But I wouldn't complain too much.

/notsigned, of course.

Andy06r · Jul 19, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

As someone trying to get a wide variety of unlocks for pvp but lacks a pvp team to get faction, the reduction in drops has really hurt my ability to get runes/upgrades.

I dont care at all about the gold, i just want to get my 3rd superior rune (the 2nd dropped in june) unlocked w/o having to farm faction cause i dont really know what i want yet.

/signed

Greyscale · Jul 19, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

I was skill capping with a bunch of random peeps in perdition rock. After a few runs in an hour just selling crap i didn't want to merchants and the gold drop I had 2k. The 5k comment was to an earlier post by velvet bunny. He claimed to still be able to do this.

What's wrong with 2k an hour? It's not like I was adventuring for the sole sake of gold. I was in it for the skills. The 2k was just a bonus. It's nice to go out with a goal and come back with a nice bit of gold. Even better to know that it's not that much less then the farmers out there are getting. Means I get to adventure and stay close to the wealth line of the farmers.

Do you know the reason thoese globs are so expensive in the first place? Becasue everybody has/had huge amounts of gold and kept buying them. The price rose. No since they sell for so much and people don't have the money to buy them it will eventually be more profitable to sell to the merchant. The price will start to fall once again. If the uber drops come back the price will just keep rising!

It will take a while but the prices will drop. Anet knows what they're doing. If they hadn't nerfed the drops imagine what the prices of the globs would be now? I don't think it matters how many people sign this, anet won't give in to something that will lead to Guild wars being just another farming sim. It's there on the box. Skill not Hours played. Rising prices will force people to farm to be competative and that is the last thing Anet wants.

I think you have the whole supply/demand thing screwed up. saying that lowering the drop rates will make prices go down is not the way things work. the more items sum1 has of a certain type the less theyll sell them for because they have MORE like for instance a small group goes into the UW to farm they come out with say 5globs+ (maybe) seeing that they have more than 1 they will sell them for less cause the more you have the less you sell it for but because of the nerf to drops that same group will come out with 2globs(maybe) thus to get there moneys worth they sell them for alot more than if they came out with 3x as much. so final notes the more you have of an items the less you sell it for the less of an item you have the more you sell it for. thus giving us back the older drop rates allowing people to get more of a certain item be it globs/shards/runes wahtever will drop the price on things because there will be so many of that item that instead of paying 100k+ for a nice endgame item you will be paying like 60k - 80k saving you money for dye's or wahtever you want.

Kabale · Jul 19, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

I think you have the whole supply/demand thing screwed up. saying that lowering the drop rates will make prices go down is not the way things work. the more items sum1 has of a certain type the less theyll sell them for because they have MORE like for instance a small group goes into the UW to farm they come out with say 5globs+ (maybe) seeing that they have more than 1 they will sell them for less cause the more you have the less you sell it for but because of the nerf to drops that same group will come out with 2globs(maybe) thus to get there moneys worth they sell them for alot more than if they came out with 3x as much. so final notes the more you have of an items the less you sell it for the less of an item you have the more you sell it for. thus giving us back the older drop rates allowing people to get more of a certain item be it globs/shards/runes wahtever will drop the price on things because there will be so many of that item that instead of paying 100k+ for a nice endgame item you will be paying like 60k - 80k saving you money for dye's or wahtever you want.

I don't agree with this, what you will see is more people trying to get their own globs and such by, instead of farming to get money to afford them, actually trying to get the damn things themselves! This is, according to what I think, what Anet is trying to do, decrease the pressure on the trading market and focusing more on using SKILL (yes, there's that word again) to get what you want.
It all comes down to how you want to play the game. Unfortunately it seems too many people are not interested in/not capable of finding these items themselves and turn to gathering as much money as possible to afford them, while people should really be trying to get the stuff themselves! Just because it's there for you to buy doesn't mean you have to dish out xxxxx amount of money on it because it's the only way you'll ever get it.
OK so being a European, I don't have much chance of getting into UW or FoW or whatever (I don't even know anything about those places), because the Koreans and Americans seem to have a stranglehold on the gods' favor. The problem with the nerfs was that all these top Guilds have already got their godly items and have a well established economy that will ensure that they can win plenty of times in HoH. So the Europeans, if they really want globs or whatever, would have to buy them at the expensive price from the merchants (or from other players). This is the fundamental flaw with these nerfs in that they were implemented way too late.
But the bottom line is, that this is not a farming game, and as suggested before, if that's what you like doing then this isn't the game for you! I myself like farming a lot, hell I was a huge Diablo 2 fan, but you must see that Anet has no intention of going down the same route, hence the nerfs.

Bit of a rant, but I'm just trying to make sense of the reasoning for/against farming. Personally, I'm against it (obviously) because I'm disgusted by its side-effects like (very sadly) people farming as a day job and putting their stuff up on eBay. And after all, I signed up for this game because of the SKILL not HOURS PLAYED concept because I don't have all the time in the world.

PieXags · Jul 19, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Christ people there's 8 other threads to discuss and argue this matter, some of which I started myself.

Go ELSEWHERE if you intend to fill up this thread with more of what we've all seen 100 times in places where the discussions were supposed to be.

THIS is for the petition, not for you to copy/paste posts you've already put in other threads.

Whether or not Anet decides to even bother looking at this petition is their own decision, but there's not a chance in hell that we'll get any changes made unless the suggestions are tossed out there and problems are made aware, so that's what we've done in this thread. And based on the...numbers of people who've gone and signed this compared to the number of unsigned, I'm not dissapointed with the outcome by any means.

Yeah, so keep in mind the thread title says "Petition to quit nerfing the hell out of us" not "Thread in which to argue about matters already found in other posts". When someone creates a petition for their city do you see people arguing amongst the signatures? Hell no, I'd rather we kept it more or less the same here. You get the idea.